Possible Civil War Widow
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Possible Civil War Widow
Updated Jun 26, 2025
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Kyle Rambo
15 favorites
03/10/2013
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AncientFaces
382k+ followers 411 favorites
10/14/2015
This unknown woman is believed to be a possible Civil War widow. Notice the man in the photo in her broach? What an outfit!
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I love it. I suspect she still in mourning wear. Not only her husband's photo in brooch, but she's holding a photo album that contained tintype photos.
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I believe so, Tarah. I have one and it looks similar
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You know, I zoomed in on the photo and I wonder if that's a brooch she is wearing or if she just placed a photo there for the picture. It seems a little contrived and uncomfortable, but really, I don't know. Just speculation...
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Mary Newton Maxwell I zoomed it too but for the album. She likely put it in there like you can with a locket.
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Linda M. Gigliotti I think you could be right...
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Mary Newton Maxwell I thought that the "brooch" looked almost too large to be a brooch. Looks very uncomfortable if she's actually wearing it as such.
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Wow!! I have an album like that with Tin pictures and women dressed like that
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Mary Newton Maxwell all photos taken, looked contrived etc, it was just the way it was in those days... they used to sew these onto material then place around the neck or such back then too..
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Yes it is. I noticed it, too. She's definitely still in mourning over her loss.
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Irma N David Ramirez The tintypes tend to go rusty after 100 years so I put mine behind glass. I (think I) threw out the rusted one, could not see the subject any more.
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I don't think it looks post mortem just my opinion.
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It kind of does look post mortem, her right arm and hand do not look naturally poised for a long exposure picture.
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I think she is postured oddly because of the corset she is so obviously suffering from wearing! lol
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She's sitting up, holding a book so I imagine she's alive. Also, you wouldn't wear black to your own funeral.
Tarah Thomas
5 favorites
10/14/2015
Why did they hold the books in hat exact manner in photos? I have several of my husband's family like that. Can't tell if they are bibles or just books or what.
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The had protocol in those days, you either did it or you did not fit and they shunned you. Horrid times although they seem so romantic to us from here.
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I have a photo like this one in my 1890s album, will look at the copies I scanned and see if it looks like the same -- although the picture itself could have been 30 years old too. Yes she does look bewildered, women did not have it easy when their men were gone, in those days.
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I can post mine but I have to crop the face as the family may still be living somewhere although my father did find the album in a box at the dump. Someone didn't appreciate antiques I guess. Copyright is only good for 100 years anyway but you never know what people will try to pull.
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Widows still do not have it easy. Lol. It stinks.
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Amanda Davis Carr Yes especially the older women whose husbands did everything for them and now they don't know even how do make a financial transaction. It's hard in any case really.
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Amanda Davis Carr Very true; it isn't easy. One has to establish a new life for one after years, perhaps decades of living with a spouse. The house is so very quiet.
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This is long after the Civil War. Her clothes and hairstyle are late 1880s to early 1890s.
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Civil war victims..
I saw ( gone with the wind movie )
What a tragedy..
I saw ( gone with the wind movie )
What a tragedy..
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Gone with the wind? LOL ...Poorest movie to base an educated opinion on.
Serena Williams
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Nancy La Selva don't be so mean - if you notice Ms. Helal lives in Egypt, and Gone with the Wind would be one of the few references she would have to the American Civil War. How's your knowlege of Egyptian history?
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The woman is being rudely picked on for showing empathy for someone-I call that a problem folks.What is lacking in this world today is empathy and compassion.Too much bashing one another all of the time! The photo is what the subject is about.Let`s pay respect to the ones that are gone and feel some sort reverence and homage to their circumstance and possibly much strength and resilience!
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Give me a break...I don't have to respect anyone that talks pure s***. White people always trying to romanticize plantation life. I respect those that deserve it
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Gone with the wind was and is the worse film for ACW You need to see glory, gods and generals, Gettysburg and field of lost shoes. Everyone was a victim in that terrible war.
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Wow, Nancy La Selva, your something else!! Ever hear of manners? No wonder so many other countries hate Americans.
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War is tragedy for all concerned, at home and on the front lines. It is so horrific that no Hollywood movie can depict the true horror.
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Nancy, calm down and get off your high horse please.
Also Laurie didn't ask if you know Egyptian history, she was asking how in depth your knowledge of another countries personal history was.
Also Laurie didn't ask if you know Egyptian history, she was asking how in depth your knowledge of another countries personal history was.
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Actually gone with the wind is filled with facts that is why it took so long to write. She wanted to make sure that all of her battles and people were correct. Margaret Mitchell spent a lot of time with confederate soldiers who told her many stories.
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Yes, Margaret Mitchell had many many friends and family who told her endless stories first hand , of the Civil War. And back then, artifacts were everywhere. Everyone lost relatives in the war. Everyone knew first hand info about the war. As a writer, she indeed felt compelled to record these details and compiles them into one of the best stories ever told. She won many awards and her estate is worth more now than it was back in the day.
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Nobody jumped on the woman that commented on civil war deaths out number world war one deaths did they? European history where the war was fought was a bit misunderstood there. If I asked most people outside of the UK about the English Civil War you would all look blank. Lighten up people
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Kelly Calderon Kelly Calderon Haha we don't hate you Ameddicans up here in the north.You take yourselves too seriously at times but hey that's your option. We like you and neither of us would have done so well in the wars without the help of the other. And yes we fought and fell in the recent ones too and are still over there in many of those.
Sue Douglas
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I agree with a couple comments here that it looks post mortem.
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She was living when the photo was taken. She opened her eyes wide for a second and the shutter snapped -- it takes hundreds of muscles to make an expression and if the shutter snaps it freezes one movement in a million.
Joanne Smith
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victorian era post mortem photos did include props of loved ones favorit items..the forehead bruise could be a indication as is discoloration of the hands
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Likely just dirt from years and years of sitting in an album, I have a couple tintypes as well. In frames behind glass. There was one in the ancient album but it was so rusted I just threw it out, did scan and copy it though.
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The "bruise" on her forehead is brownish. Why would that show up as a color when the photo is in black-and-white? Not a postmortem photo. Just a bit of discoloration from the age of the photo.
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most likely yes i agree. and as much as anyone can tell without documented history of it..speculation in any form you present it.being there are other images to be found of same type of brooches and holding husband images..i will agree its a mourners photograph.
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I don't think this is a post mortem photo. The discolouration on the forehead is an artifact on the paper, not in the image. I don't believe that post-mortem photos were so 'lively'--open eyes, sitting erect, one arm resting, etc. I could be wrong.
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Oh yes. I have several of those. The women always look starched.
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No one said it was a post mortem photo. The woman is clearly alive. X
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Shelley Bruce Several people asked the question. Please read the other remarks.
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The subjects of post mortum photos were often posed in life-like positions, but I think this woman is alive here.
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Check in google....you have a lot post mortem photos like this one
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And the majority of those are not genuine post mortems.
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I have seen postmortem photos, they have had children standing up and held up with a frame. I can't tell especially with it being b&w photo
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I have seen many pm photos with eyes open or sometimes painted to look open. They used lots of different stands and things to make the deceased look alive still.
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Lena, that stand above was used for LIVING subjects. The "post mortems" shown in most online "sources" are, more often than not, alive and well. Once rigor sets in, you can't pose a body very easily and you certainly can't make it look lifelike.
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Melanie Stringer As a former palliative care worker here, yes you can because rigor mortis loosens up again after initial freeze.
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I think it's PM as well.. I think the brooch is helping to position her head and her arm has been placed on the book. Also because it took a long time to take these pics and this one is so clear...she didn't wiggle at all... And that's pretty hard.
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She is absolutely alive. The post mortem photos are always obvious: this woman is alive, well, and breathing just fine in a corset she laced herself.
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Kathleen, Hi Kathi. Nah she's living, I've seen dead bodies and they don't look like that /
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I watched a documentary recently and someone had a picture of their female Ancestor sitting in this exact pose with bible in hand, but research later uncovered that the women had actually been institutionalised for mental illness, and the photo was taken by the institute. They took the same photos of all their inmates around this era. I think this might me the same thing.
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You are right Judy in the documentary I mentioned the woman was suffering from grief of the death of a child. So her husband had her committed, so much unnecessary suffering.
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Andrea Richards--What documentary are you referring to? It sounds really interesting.
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But most likely it is just an ordinary portrait of an ordinary woman who is mourning the loss of a male family member.
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Julia Steinke Stublaski That went on all the time, all he had to do was decide he wanted another woman so wife had to be gotten rid of, he would have her commited.
Susan Schloss
1 follower 496 favorites
10/14/2015
I have a photo of my great grandmother wearimg a similar but smaller oval pin at her neck with a portrait of a man (I have no idea who it is), taken around 1900 in NYC. Apparently, that was the style back.then. I will try to find the photo
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Her corset is so tight, I don't know how she's breathing!
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If a corset is made to measure and fits well, it is not restrictive and actually helps with back health. The dress is very close fitting, which was the fashion, but the entire affect doesn't look painful at al to me. I loved wearing my corset when I wore period clothing at a history museum.
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found similar victorian era images..of livlier looking ladies wearing these husband brooches..and one holding a photo as well..though this dear lady has the largest of the bunch..(brooch)
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Imagine her hair being down.....neatly styled to suit her face. And a smile- people didn't smile in pictures then- possibility due to poor dental care. This is not post mortem- this woman is proudly sitting showing her deceased husband off, not showing/caring about herself--
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People didn't smile in photos because taking a photo took too long to retain any kind of facial expression. That isn't to say the dental care would have been great though! Granted, they didn't eat nearly as much garbage as we do today.
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People didn't smile in photos as it was thought to be "unbecoming." It wasn't the done thing. :)
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No Alyssa is right it took a some time to take the picture. Taking pictures back then was not the same as taking them now. One click and the picture is captured now. Back then people had to sit still for some time in order to have the picture taken.
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We just went to a talk at Colonial Williamsburg about this very subject--why did people not smile in photographs? Corinna is correct. It was because getting your picture taken was an expensive and significant experience. You might only get your picture taken once in your lifetime. Exposures only took about three seconds even during the Civil War, and people can easily smile for three seconds. Here's the Smithsonian's video on the subject:
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Alyssa Rose Gomori You are the only who got it right, i know a photographer he said the said. The method to take it is long and slow due to the process. All interesting stuff.
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yes, looks to me like the photo under her chin is not a brooch, but a photo that might have even come from the cover of the album she holds in her hand ... notice the blank circle where a photo would be
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I may be wrong. I enlarged this photo. I think she may have a wedding band on her left hand. I can see her right hand clearly. No ring on it. Like I said, I may be wrong.
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Plenty of women continued to wear the wedding band after being widowed. Or, she may have remarried. She could still have been honoring her prior, dead, husband. Or perhaps she was honoring some other dead relative, such as a father or brother. The Civil War doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it, either.
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Brenda some countries have the custom even now to wear the wedding band on their right hand and when they immigrate here they retain that custom. Germans still do it, Georgians (the country), etc.
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am the only one who notice a lizard head in her dress?
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First thing I saw. Big eye under the book. I do think it's just an illusion from the fabric. Well I hope so anyway!
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Carolyn Butler What I learned was that is a trick of paredeliia if I spelled it right. Seeing faces in things. They explain that the brain must define and so it tells you oh this design on the floor reminds me of face so you see face. The larger umbrella term over paredelia is when we see appartions or other things. How can you tell I love ghost stories, sometimes they even explain these things and then I look it up of course. But then there could be a lizard for real....
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War is hell and it looks like she has been there and back. Tragic for those who died in the war and their loved ones who had to carry on each and every day to be able to remember and honor them.
Regina Parker
17 favorites
10/14/2015
Love the brooch what a beautiful way to honor her loved one
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No. She is most certainly alive. If she was dead she would look very different, and you could't very easily pose her or keep her upright. Post mortems have lots of telltale signs and and every indicator here is that she is alive and well.
Indiana Saunders
11 favorites
10/14/2015
The dress is actually quite beautiful, but her corset was way too tall. She was a more mature woman that just decided if she could still get it on herself, why bother getting a new one?
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No, the corset length is perfectly fine. You may be thinking of the underbust corsets from the 1860s; this image is a good 20 years after the Civil War. And many women with larger breasts would find an underbust corset entirely useless and extremely uncomfortable, as it doesn't provide any support for the bust, which creates a lot of terrible chafing. Take my word for it. Mature breasts need support from the corset. Bust support is the primary function of the corset. Waist shaping is a secondary function which becomes more of a fashion statement over time.
The length and features of corset styles changed many times over the 19th century. This image is somewhere between the late 1880s and early 1890s, and overbust corsets were quite standard in that era. I wear them myself when I present my educational history programs, and mine fits similarly to this.
Also: corsets, like modern bras or any other clothing, eventually wear out and need to be replaced. Unless she was desperately poor (which the image indicates is not the case), she would have 2 or 3 corsets at any one time (at least) and replace them as needed. A ratty corset is not going to lace up well at all.
The length and features of corset styles changed many times over the 19th century. This image is somewhere between the late 1880s and early 1890s, and overbust corsets were quite standard in that era. I wear them myself when I present my educational history programs, and mine fits similarly to this.
Also: corsets, like modern bras or any other clothing, eventually wear out and need to be replaced. Unless she was desperately poor (which the image indicates is not the case), she would have 2 or 3 corsets at any one time (at least) and replace them as needed. A ratty corset is not going to lace up well at all.
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I know that about this same time in history there were some inmates , I believe it was a penal system in TEXAS. And they were all dressed in the same tie and jacket for a portrait like picture. I have only seen post mortem pictures that were popular for awhile , with the deceased in their coffin. All very interesting.
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I didn't think women in mourning went out and had their photos took.
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Yes they did I have one of my great great grandmother and her sisters
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Really. Is it true that there was different stages of mourning? You would think the the wife would be to filled with other things to being having photos taken. Well they say we learn new things everyday. :)
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Since black was worn for several years after the death of a spouse (Queen Victoria wore black for the remaining 40 years of her life after her husband died), this woman has had time to deal with the grief. Plus, life went on. You couldn't stop when everything was done by hand, food cooked from scratch, no modern conveniences. And clothing wasn't cheap. Most women had only two dresses, possibly a third, but even then, the dresses had to last for years.
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Excuse my comment Ree but did depend on whether the person was northern or southern, rich or poor?
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Dawn STringer your humour is as cheeky as your smile. Love it!
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Mourning traditions are widely varied from religion to religion, culture to culture, and region to region, family to family. Not all people observed all customs, and many people remarried shortly after being widowed.
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Well Like i said i live and learn, never thought of it that way. thanks for sharing stringer to stringer :)
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My humble opinion is also it's a PM. Those pics were staged in many ways.. they would use steel rods to keep the people upright.. I have seen several pictures of children with their siblings . They do not look deceased, but they are..All sort of props were used to "stage" the look desired..
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Living people were also often held up with frames and resting posts because of the long time it took for the picture to develop on the film. This woman is in a tight corset; she couldn't have bent over well at the waist, live or dead!
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Many times the only photo that was ever taken was that of a dead person. So, the photographer was called right before or after someone passed. :(
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She isn't dead. A post mortem is very obvious. This woman is alive and well and probably laced her own corset. The image is late 1880s to early 1890s, and by then, photographers were quite readily available and having a portrait taken was much more affordable than in earlier decades.
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Agree to disagree. I've seen PM'S extremely well done and life like.
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The majority of the post mortems you believe you have seen are actually NOT post mortems. This myth was spread a few years ago and still perpetuates on the internet. Look at some trustworthy sites and dispell the myths.
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So glad to know you know what I believe. What I am discussing is NOT ON THE FREAKIN' INTERNET. I have done research also. Please don't tell me what I believe!!!
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I read recently that more lives were lost in The Civil war than in the WW1.
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More American lives lost in the Civil War than in ANY other war our nation has ever been involved in.
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It was a war fought with 18th century tactics and 20th century weapons, resulting in carnage. Gettysburg alone killed and wounded almost 50,000 men.
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Thank you for the information. Read with interest.
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This lady would probably roll over in her grave LAUGHING if she knew people over a hundred years later thought she looked dead at all! I can imagine her like, "y'all, do I seriously look THAT bad?!".
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Shannon Gonzaga She was living. Look at the light in her eyes. I worked palliative care and never saw a dying person look that lively. Her hand muscles are still visible as well as those in her face. she was caught in an instant of the time it takes the facial muscles to form an expression.
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I KNOW! That's why I was saying that she would probaly not appreciate that people think she looks dead. I am also a Hospice volunteer, and I feel the same way as you.
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The heighth of fashion then. You were to be in black for three years, then change to purple and dark blue. There was a pension for Civil War widows. My ancestor managed to save money on the $11 a month that she received.
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I thought it was the edging of the mourning clothes then change the colours of clothing later on the mourning time.
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Not necessarily, it depended on where you lived and how your family treated the situation. Some places they only had to wear black two years. During the Civil war, black might have been all you had, especially down South.
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This woman is many years past the Civil War. She is dressed in a late 1880s to early 1890s style. Also, the dress could be almost any color. Reds and browns and deep greens will look black in b&w photos, too.
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This lady is a man...look at his hands!
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Wash clothes with lye soap and boiling water, sweep carpets with a broom, empty coal stoves and carry heavy coal scuttles...do this for about 20 or so years, and see what your hands look like. Her joints look a bit swollen, so she probably has arthritis as well.
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Um, Cornelia Stuyver, what does that even mean? You sound so snobby and judgmental and ignorant about the past--and a little like an old Jerry Seinfeld episode. Most women (even wealthy ones) in earlier generations--especially prior to the mid-20th century--had "old" hands at a young age because they lacked the luxury and relative ease of modern life. They had to do everything with their hands. Much of their work involved heavy repetitive motion, and few had access to all the pampering and gentle products we in the modern era take for granted.
Besides, ANY person who has worked with their hands for decades will have "man" hands. Ree Young is correct, and didn't even mention all the other tasks, like sewing, scrubbing floors, ironing with a flatiron (those things are heavy and awkward to use and will destroy your wrists) and many other physical tasks. In fact, just lacing one's corset every day will stress one's hands. I'm a historian who portrays a woman in the 1890s and I can promise you, lacing up is hard on the hands. This woman probably did that every day of her life, unlike someone like me who only does it for my presentations--about 50 times per year.
Incidentally, I worked as a cashier at a grocery store as my first job, stayed there almost a decade, and had man hands in my early 20s from carpal tunnel syndrome and the many scars acquired when handling boxes, cans, paper, money, and harsh cleaning products constantly. I left that job almost 20 years ago and my hands always give away my age even though the rest of me still looks younger than I am chronologically. But I always look at that as a happy accident, because my hands look the part FAR better than they would if I had really "feminine" hands.
Besides, ANY person who has worked with their hands for decades will have "man" hands. Ree Young is correct, and didn't even mention all the other tasks, like sewing, scrubbing floors, ironing with a flatiron (those things are heavy and awkward to use and will destroy your wrists) and many other physical tasks. In fact, just lacing one's corset every day will stress one's hands. I'm a historian who portrays a woman in the 1890s and I can promise you, lacing up is hard on the hands. This woman probably did that every day of her life, unlike someone like me who only does it for my presentations--about 50 times per year.
Incidentally, I worked as a cashier at a grocery store as my first job, stayed there almost a decade, and had man hands in my early 20s from carpal tunnel syndrome and the many scars acquired when handling boxes, cans, paper, money, and harsh cleaning products constantly. I left that job almost 20 years ago and my hands always give away my age even though the rest of me still looks younger than I am chronologically. But I always look at that as a happy accident, because my hands look the part FAR better than they would if I had really "feminine" hands.
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Melanie Stringer For goodness sake just because we disagree with you, you take offence? Big deal. I could not care less who disagrees with me in fact I rather enjoy it. My my my.
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Why a civil War widow? The man on the photo is not wearing an uniform!!
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Good observation! Also if you look even closer, he appears to be an older man, not solider age.
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Lucy, even if the photo was taken during the Civil War, it doesn't mean he died fighting in it, just like not every man who died during the Vietnam war years didn't died as a result of that war.
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Lucy Hurst See the picture I posted above, of the two women whose faces I had to crop for copyright law -- their dresses are similar and the photo is dated Sept 1898 on its back. In beautiful teacher scripted longhand yet. The pair or at least the young one taught at a little school in Canada.
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This photo is at least 20 years post-Civil War.
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...And she is likely not wearing black! The collodion process is fairly insensitive to certain colors, so actually she could just as well be wearing red or yellow. Black tends to photograph lighter, and comes across as gray.
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I see a beautiful woman in morning over losing a son or husband. But I also get the feeling it is a post mortem picture because looking at the picture the left arm looks stiff and placed there for this picture. The only thing I get from the brooch is that maybe she died over losing this loved one in the war and through respect the picture was placed there as a forever reminder of what happened.
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WONDERFUL. I feel sorry for those poor women, they didn't have any help like today.. just had to suck it up and move on, even with loads of littlies to feed... looks like it could be the black dress, worn for a good while after the death of your husband. so tight and restrictive..
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Jennifer, the Portugese women living up here still do that. All the rest of their life they have to wear black, take out their flowers, stay single yet the widowers can get remarried the same afternoon as his wife's funeral.
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The women wore hoop dresses at the beginning of the civil war. ...then after the war they wore the bustle dresses. This lady wanted one more photo of her with her husband! So sad in her eyes.
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It could be that the brooch was from the front of the album. It oculd have had a pin on the back so it could be worn. Brooches were sometimes made so that they could be used as pendants, so the brooch being a multi-use item is possible.
I doubt she wore it on a regular basis, as it is large. But this is a formal photograph. She probably donned her best black mourning dress to have it taken with the photo of her lost loved one.
I doubt she wore it on a regular basis, as it is large. But this is a formal photograph. She probably donned her best black mourning dress to have it taken with the photo of her lost loved one.
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and oh, the corset. She did all that backbreaking work while compressing her lungs so tightly that she could never get a full, deep breath. Any wonder women died young in those days?
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Your lungs aren't compressed. Corsets are not as restrictive as they look and a woman customized the fit herself to accommodate accordingly. The corset is more about creating a visual illusion than anything. When I am laced up (I present first-person history as a specific person from the mid-1890s), my waist only LOOKS smaller than normal. But the actual measurement when corseted vs any other day of the year is almost exactly the same.
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Melanie, how did we Ever figure things out on our own without you being here to correct all of us
Thank you😢😨😮
Thank you😢😨😮
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Rose Gasak Some people know more than teenagers who know it all.
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well, Melanie, I also have been corseted, as was my grandmother, and I couldn't breathe a deep breath nor could she. I also reduced my waist measurement by 3" and so, I suppose, for each of us the issue is different.
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Yes I don't understand how they got through the hot weather all that they had to wear . Even the long hair that they had would be excruciatingly warm . I recently let my hair grow long a little longer than would be normal for my age just to sort of test it out it was so warm when I put it down I cannot stand it . They had three layers of clothing or better as far as the time frame they did wear black a lot but this was a morning outfit I could not see the face and broach not sure if there is a uniform on or not maybe not not necessarily a soldier so I'm just guessing at around 1850 to 1875.
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Much later than that. Her clothes and hairstyle indicate late 1880s to early 1890s.
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I took my magnifying glass and looked closer he was not a soldier just a gentleman who is bald sort of a Dr. Phil look I can't tell if the discoloration was in her fingers or part of the picture just being old also when you look at it with a magnifying glass her face looks really odd her skin looks shriveled but, now I'm thinking about it it could be just age and the fact that she had wrinkles, I could not see that her pupils were dilated I don't believe this is a p.m..
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Her husband could have been a soldier, but the only photograph she has of him was taken before he became one. Being bald, of course, is not necessarily a sign of age, and he might have died of something other than war-related injuries or diseases. All sorts of possibilities...we can only guess.
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It could be any significant male in her life--father, brother, son are all possibilities.
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I believe the woman being so flogged was thinking of the mourning rituals which she saw in Gone With the Wind, and which are described in the book. Margaret Mitchell was born in 1900 and would have had contact with many women who were widows of the CW and men who had fought in it. The importance of GWTW the book, according to Margaret Mitchell herself, is that it is a story of survival. It remains a very popular book in Vietnam and Japan for that reason. And while we as Americans in the last 40 years are so, have been taught to see it as racist, (and it is to us, but we cannot judge Mitchell as she was a product of her time) I th ink it is important to remember that she wrote, as she said, about what happened to people who had "gumption" and those who didn't. None of the sequels are worth a damn because they fail to have Mitchell's vision. I have enjoyed the books concerning Rhett Butler and Mammy, but they are no where near what Mitchell may have had in mind when she finished the book, which was probably nothing.
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Also I think she was few years out of mourning given the button decoration and the elaborate fashion of her clothing. I agree that the photo is probably of her dead husband, but she may just simply have been a widow with not connection to the war. She also probably had money since she had her picture taken and once again because of her clothing.
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As to the war dead, the only acceptable number of war dead is zero. Every soldier who fights in a war is someone's father, brother, uncle, cousin, or friend, (or sister, mother, aunt, etc.) and those people deserve to rest in peace without any argument. I have ancestors who fought on both sides of the CW and honor them equally, because I am not them, cannot know how they felt, and have read and studied the war itself for too many years to know that hating someone is tragic and serves no purpose.
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I don't think this was Civil War.. Perhaps her dead husband did fight in the Civil War, but the photo shown he was not wearing an uniform. This looks like 1870 or later..
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Well, she was in mourning, and may not have felt like smiling. There might also been a stand holding her head still and she was afraid to smile, Many people didn't smile because they didn't have good teeth, and then too, some people just didn't think it was correct to smile in a mourning picture. I think it was chiefly, however, because the exposure took so long.
Susan Schloss
1 follower 496 favorites
10/18/2015
This is my great great grandmother, and she is wearing a similar pin. I think it's around 1900, in NYC.
N Hertel
3 followers 154 favorites
11/02/2015
No, it's not torn. It's a pleat, just like the one on the other side of her skirt. Nobody in the U.S. knows what it's like to live in the middle of a war. The U.S. hasn't seen war on their own land in 150 years. We have things way too cushy here. Not only is there a lot of blood shed and death of loved ones, but watching your world go up in smoke, literally, everything you own; disease (plagues of all sorts, including an abundance of lice, typhus, diphtheria, cholera, etc. - those who don't die of gun shot, die of plague, and far more of them, than die of gun shot); listening to the guns going off all day; listening to the screaming of injured men all night; women and girls being raped (in some wars, gang raped to their deaths); no food to be had anywhere, which means going hungry for lengthy periods of time; having to steal the little food they do have, because the scarcity of it makes the prices go sky high, and there's no money to be had - a shoe box full of money being barely enough to buy a loaf of bread, maybe - in the better times; troops of soldiers demanding you prepare them a meal at gun point, which means that potato you planned for your family's meals for the next two or three days/nights, goes into a soup pot for those soldiers, who have food provided for them by their military, but they just want a home cooked meal; the scarcity of clean water, etc., etc., and those are only the kinds of things one can talk about years later. There are many other horrors that no word, or words can describe - only mute tears. This woman didn't just lose one or two loved ones - she lost everything that made life worthwhile. Her pose isn't unnatural, it''s as comfortable as she can get while she's waiting for the photographer to take the picture. The fact that she posed for such a photo, in her mourning clothes, with the picture of her husband at her neck, and the tin-type picture album, no doubt filled with the pictures of many other loved ones she lost, in her hand, is a statement in itself. It's not about showing respect for the dead, and those left behind - it's about the gross, unnecessary waste of war over things that could have been settled around a table, with a lot of desire to find a compromise, and a lot less hot headedness over having your own way. War is never the only way - it's only the only way for those who refuse to listen to the other person's side of the story, and demand to have their way - 100%. Respect for the other person, and their opinions and needs is what prevents war.
N Hertel
3 followers 154 favorites
11/02/2015
She wouldn't have had a picture of her husband in uniform. For one thing most soldiers made up their own uniform (see the story of George Custer, and his uniforms), but mostly, her husband isn't in uniform in the picture, because it's a picture of him before the war began. Why should she smile over a statement of the evils of war, and everybody and thing that is lost in war? People who talk about the lack of a smile over a photo like this, has no clue to the horrors of war. It's a proof of the superficiality - shallowness - of today's society.
Daniel Pinna
22 followers 656 favorites
03/02/2020
Those "Danny Elfman" shoulders!
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I wonder what the women of the future will think when they look back on our fashions.
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They may say they can't believe how slovenly the women were! Not pointing fingers. I'm a country girl and I go to town looking like Ive been digging in the garden.
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I loved wearing period clothing, but it does make you think, about how these women managed with everyday tasks.
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If you were raised wearing those fashions, you didn't expect anything else. What would you have compared it to? No one would have believed the way we dress now or that we expect our clothes to be comfortable.
Actually, I can't figure out why modern women wear those very high heels that cause the Achilles tendon to shorten, the spine to be out of alignment, and those tight, pointy shoes...women end up with painful bunions and callouses. Whatever the century, it's all in the name of following fashion, painful, confining, or just plain silly!
Actually, I can't figure out why modern women wear those very high heels that cause the Achilles tendon to shorten, the spine to be out of alignment, and those tight, pointy shoes...women end up with painful bunions and callouses. Whatever the century, it's all in the name of following fashion, painful, confining, or just plain silly!
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Oh yes, Stilettos! Ouch, and add to that a super short dress that fits like it's spray painted on. A dress like that of course requires that a woman wear thong panties (aka; butt saw) At least the absurd fashions we have now are optional, not the standard daily wear.
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I know what you mean Lowlie . . .looks as if they were holding in farts!
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Dawn Stringer I mention this in my novel in progress. Imagine trying to do a dirty job and having your hem caught in the muck. Or trying to outrun something. And they didn't just stick their dress in the washer like we can.
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Linda Woody her dress is like the one I posted above which was dated at the back as Sept. 8, 1898. One or both the subjects were teachers in Canada.
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I hike this trail frequently, and it's quite dangerous. I can't even imagine how (or WHY) a woman would manage this trail in long, multi-layerd, cumbersom skirts and corsetes. So I've always found this photo astonishing.
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Linda M. Gigliotti--I assume you're consulting with someone on the physical aspects? Women made all sorts of adaptations for various conditions such as housework.
And corsets weren't nearly as bad as we imagine. I'm not saying they were wonderful, but a properly-laced and properly-fitted corset (custom made--you'll never get the correct fit "off the rack") is rather more comfortable than you'd expect. Once you know how to put one on and lace it yourself there are many ways to get "the look" like the woman in the picture without suffocating. Remember, too, the clothing was made for the individual, so it is perfectly fitted over the layers of underpinnings and the corset for the individual woman. But a woman in a formal portrait is dressed in her best outfit, NOT in her daily wear. It looks much worse than it actually is.
I am an historian and I present educational programs in first-person--meaning I portray a specific woman from history as she would have been in the mid-1890s--so I have the full complement of wardrobe that was custom-sewn to fit me perfectly. When I'm dressed for presentation, people think I'm much thinner than I am, but the corset and the shape of the clothes create the illusion. My actual waist measurement is no smaller while corseted than when I'm in modern street clothes.
And corsets weren't nearly as bad as we imagine. I'm not saying they were wonderful, but a properly-laced and properly-fitted corset (custom made--you'll never get the correct fit "off the rack") is rather more comfortable than you'd expect. Once you know how to put one on and lace it yourself there are many ways to get "the look" like the woman in the picture without suffocating. Remember, too, the clothing was made for the individual, so it is perfectly fitted over the layers of underpinnings and the corset for the individual woman. But a woman in a formal portrait is dressed in her best outfit, NOT in her daily wear. It looks much worse than it actually is.
I am an historian and I present educational programs in first-person--meaning I portray a specific woman from history as she would have been in the mid-1890s--so I have the full complement of wardrobe that was custom-sewn to fit me perfectly. When I'm dressed for presentation, people think I'm much thinner than I am, but the corset and the shape of the clothes create the illusion. My actual waist measurement is no smaller while corseted than when I'm in modern street clothes.
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This could easily be a mid-1880s to early 1890s style--she's not wearing hoops of any kind, so I'm going with a later date. 1870s was more Natural Form, and the lunatic fringe hairstyle didn't really take off until the 1880s, getting very large like this in the early 1890s and going out of style by 1897-1900.
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Melanie Stringer Thank you Melanie Stringer inasmuch as the corset comment was someone else's. I don't get into the fine details of apparel in the novel, only a hint and suggestion of era which includes clothing as well as trap, lantern, and outhouse. In so doing the reader fills in the image from their own experience or from what they've learned. Writing in a manner that spells everything out, insults the reader's intelligence. As for the corset women often suffered physical ailments due to the fashion of cinching in their waists as that compromises the internal organs such as stomach, spleen, liver, etc. Your work sounds exciting indeed!
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Melanie Stringer I'm saying that the picture I posted from my own album out of the 1890s is dated Sept 1898 and was worn by professional women, teachers in Canada at that time.
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Ugh, so tired of my phone and computer dinging for 2 days. As the comments are in reply to my comment, unfollowing the primary post does no good. I'm going to delete my first comment and poooof, the DING DING DING will end.
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